How to “see” discontinuity of second derivative from graph of function











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Suppose we have a real function $ f: mathbb{R} to mathbb{R}$ that is two times differentiable and we draw its graph ${(x,f(x)), x in mathbb{R} } $. We know, for example, that when the first derivative is not continuous at a point we then have an "corner" in the graph. How about a discontinuity of $f''(x)$ at a point $x_0$ though? Can we spot that just by drawing the graph of $f(x)$ -not drawing the graph of the first derivative and noticing it has an "corner" at $x_0$, that's cheating. What about discontinuities of higher derivatives, which will of course be way harder to "see"?










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  • 2




    It's likely that you actually have something else that you are thinking of and not what you ask. For example, you might be thinking that $|x|$ has discontinuous derivative, but that is not true. Actually, $|x|$ has no derivative at $0$ at all. Could you name from top of your head a differentiable function on whole $mathbb R$, but it's derivative not continuous? What you probably have in mind is $n$ times differentiable, but not $n+1$ times.
    – Ennar
    Nov 6 at 21:00












  • Yeah I might have mistakenly (?) said discontinuous at a point meaning either undefined (which is what the answers cover) or defined but discontinuous (so any examples on this?).
    – Dimitris
    Nov 6 at 21:12






  • 2




    Defined but discontinuous is not as easy to find as it might seem. The problem is that derivatives, even though not necessarily continuous, still have intermediate value property, so functions with jump discontinuities are not derivatives. Classic example of differentiable function with discontinuous derivative is $x^2sin(1/x)$ for $x>0$, and $0$ otherwise. Plot it and tell me if you can spot that the derivative is discontinuous :)
    – Ennar
    Nov 6 at 21:16










  • I don't think you can see it, but you can feel it. The second derivative is acceleration, or force. If you're cruising down the freeway and then step on the gas (maybe you're passing someone), your distance ($f(t)$) and speed ($f^prime(x)$) are both continuous, but your acceleration ($f^{primeprime}(x)$) just had a jump discontinuity.
    – JonathanZ
    2 days ago








  • 1




    @CarstenS Sure, but if I remember correctly, cubic splines have jumps in the third derivative and the junction points
    – martini
    2 days ago















up vote
16
down vote

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Suppose we have a real function $ f: mathbb{R} to mathbb{R}$ that is two times differentiable and we draw its graph ${(x,f(x)), x in mathbb{R} } $. We know, for example, that when the first derivative is not continuous at a point we then have an "corner" in the graph. How about a discontinuity of $f''(x)$ at a point $x_0$ though? Can we spot that just by drawing the graph of $f(x)$ -not drawing the graph of the first derivative and noticing it has an "corner" at $x_0$, that's cheating. What about discontinuities of higher derivatives, which will of course be way harder to "see"?










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 2




    It's likely that you actually have something else that you are thinking of and not what you ask. For example, you might be thinking that $|x|$ has discontinuous derivative, but that is not true. Actually, $|x|$ has no derivative at $0$ at all. Could you name from top of your head a differentiable function on whole $mathbb R$, but it's derivative not continuous? What you probably have in mind is $n$ times differentiable, but not $n+1$ times.
    – Ennar
    Nov 6 at 21:00












  • Yeah I might have mistakenly (?) said discontinuous at a point meaning either undefined (which is what the answers cover) or defined but discontinuous (so any examples on this?).
    – Dimitris
    Nov 6 at 21:12






  • 2




    Defined but discontinuous is not as easy to find as it might seem. The problem is that derivatives, even though not necessarily continuous, still have intermediate value property, so functions with jump discontinuities are not derivatives. Classic example of differentiable function with discontinuous derivative is $x^2sin(1/x)$ for $x>0$, and $0$ otherwise. Plot it and tell me if you can spot that the derivative is discontinuous :)
    – Ennar
    Nov 6 at 21:16










  • I don't think you can see it, but you can feel it. The second derivative is acceleration, or force. If you're cruising down the freeway and then step on the gas (maybe you're passing someone), your distance ($f(t)$) and speed ($f^prime(x)$) are both continuous, but your acceleration ($f^{primeprime}(x)$) just had a jump discontinuity.
    – JonathanZ
    2 days ago








  • 1




    @CarstenS Sure, but if I remember correctly, cubic splines have jumps in the third derivative and the junction points
    – martini
    2 days ago













up vote
16
down vote

favorite
11









up vote
16
down vote

favorite
11






11





Suppose we have a real function $ f: mathbb{R} to mathbb{R}$ that is two times differentiable and we draw its graph ${(x,f(x)), x in mathbb{R} } $. We know, for example, that when the first derivative is not continuous at a point we then have an "corner" in the graph. How about a discontinuity of $f''(x)$ at a point $x_0$ though? Can we spot that just by drawing the graph of $f(x)$ -not drawing the graph of the first derivative and noticing it has an "corner" at $x_0$, that's cheating. What about discontinuities of higher derivatives, which will of course be way harder to "see"?










share|cite|improve this question















Suppose we have a real function $ f: mathbb{R} to mathbb{R}$ that is two times differentiable and we draw its graph ${(x,f(x)), x in mathbb{R} } $. We know, for example, that when the first derivative is not continuous at a point we then have an "corner" in the graph. How about a discontinuity of $f''(x)$ at a point $x_0$ though? Can we spot that just by drawing the graph of $f(x)$ -not drawing the graph of the first derivative and noticing it has an "corner" at $x_0$, that's cheating. What about discontinuities of higher derivatives, which will of course be way harder to "see"?







real-analysis functions derivatives






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edited Nov 6 at 19:22

























asked Nov 6 at 19:04









Dimitris

6121619




6121619








  • 2




    It's likely that you actually have something else that you are thinking of and not what you ask. For example, you might be thinking that $|x|$ has discontinuous derivative, but that is not true. Actually, $|x|$ has no derivative at $0$ at all. Could you name from top of your head a differentiable function on whole $mathbb R$, but it's derivative not continuous? What you probably have in mind is $n$ times differentiable, but not $n+1$ times.
    – Ennar
    Nov 6 at 21:00












  • Yeah I might have mistakenly (?) said discontinuous at a point meaning either undefined (which is what the answers cover) or defined but discontinuous (so any examples on this?).
    – Dimitris
    Nov 6 at 21:12






  • 2




    Defined but discontinuous is not as easy to find as it might seem. The problem is that derivatives, even though not necessarily continuous, still have intermediate value property, so functions with jump discontinuities are not derivatives. Classic example of differentiable function with discontinuous derivative is $x^2sin(1/x)$ for $x>0$, and $0$ otherwise. Plot it and tell me if you can spot that the derivative is discontinuous :)
    – Ennar
    Nov 6 at 21:16










  • I don't think you can see it, but you can feel it. The second derivative is acceleration, or force. If you're cruising down the freeway and then step on the gas (maybe you're passing someone), your distance ($f(t)$) and speed ($f^prime(x)$) are both continuous, but your acceleration ($f^{primeprime}(x)$) just had a jump discontinuity.
    – JonathanZ
    2 days ago








  • 1




    @CarstenS Sure, but if I remember correctly, cubic splines have jumps in the third derivative and the junction points
    – martini
    2 days ago














  • 2




    It's likely that you actually have something else that you are thinking of and not what you ask. For example, you might be thinking that $|x|$ has discontinuous derivative, but that is not true. Actually, $|x|$ has no derivative at $0$ at all. Could you name from top of your head a differentiable function on whole $mathbb R$, but it's derivative not continuous? What you probably have in mind is $n$ times differentiable, but not $n+1$ times.
    – Ennar
    Nov 6 at 21:00












  • Yeah I might have mistakenly (?) said discontinuous at a point meaning either undefined (which is what the answers cover) or defined but discontinuous (so any examples on this?).
    – Dimitris
    Nov 6 at 21:12






  • 2




    Defined but discontinuous is not as easy to find as it might seem. The problem is that derivatives, even though not necessarily continuous, still have intermediate value property, so functions with jump discontinuities are not derivatives. Classic example of differentiable function with discontinuous derivative is $x^2sin(1/x)$ for $x>0$, and $0$ otherwise. Plot it and tell me if you can spot that the derivative is discontinuous :)
    – Ennar
    Nov 6 at 21:16










  • I don't think you can see it, but you can feel it. The second derivative is acceleration, or force. If you're cruising down the freeway and then step on the gas (maybe you're passing someone), your distance ($f(t)$) and speed ($f^prime(x)$) are both continuous, but your acceleration ($f^{primeprime}(x)$) just had a jump discontinuity.
    – JonathanZ
    2 days ago








  • 1




    @CarstenS Sure, but if I remember correctly, cubic splines have jumps in the third derivative and the junction points
    – martini
    2 days ago








2




2




It's likely that you actually have something else that you are thinking of and not what you ask. For example, you might be thinking that $|x|$ has discontinuous derivative, but that is not true. Actually, $|x|$ has no derivative at $0$ at all. Could you name from top of your head a differentiable function on whole $mathbb R$, but it's derivative not continuous? What you probably have in mind is $n$ times differentiable, but not $n+1$ times.
– Ennar
Nov 6 at 21:00






It's likely that you actually have something else that you are thinking of and not what you ask. For example, you might be thinking that $|x|$ has discontinuous derivative, but that is not true. Actually, $|x|$ has no derivative at $0$ at all. Could you name from top of your head a differentiable function on whole $mathbb R$, but it's derivative not continuous? What you probably have in mind is $n$ times differentiable, but not $n+1$ times.
– Ennar
Nov 6 at 21:00














Yeah I might have mistakenly (?) said discontinuous at a point meaning either undefined (which is what the answers cover) or defined but discontinuous (so any examples on this?).
– Dimitris
Nov 6 at 21:12




Yeah I might have mistakenly (?) said discontinuous at a point meaning either undefined (which is what the answers cover) or defined but discontinuous (so any examples on this?).
– Dimitris
Nov 6 at 21:12




2




2




Defined but discontinuous is not as easy to find as it might seem. The problem is that derivatives, even though not necessarily continuous, still have intermediate value property, so functions with jump discontinuities are not derivatives. Classic example of differentiable function with discontinuous derivative is $x^2sin(1/x)$ for $x>0$, and $0$ otherwise. Plot it and tell me if you can spot that the derivative is discontinuous :)
– Ennar
Nov 6 at 21:16




Defined but discontinuous is not as easy to find as it might seem. The problem is that derivatives, even though not necessarily continuous, still have intermediate value property, so functions with jump discontinuities are not derivatives. Classic example of differentiable function with discontinuous derivative is $x^2sin(1/x)$ for $x>0$, and $0$ otherwise. Plot it and tell me if you can spot that the derivative is discontinuous :)
– Ennar
Nov 6 at 21:16












I don't think you can see it, but you can feel it. The second derivative is acceleration, or force. If you're cruising down the freeway and then step on the gas (maybe you're passing someone), your distance ($f(t)$) and speed ($f^prime(x)$) are both continuous, but your acceleration ($f^{primeprime}(x)$) just had a jump discontinuity.
– JonathanZ
2 days ago






I don't think you can see it, but you can feel it. The second derivative is acceleration, or force. If you're cruising down the freeway and then step on the gas (maybe you're passing someone), your distance ($f(t)$) and speed ($f^prime(x)$) are both continuous, but your acceleration ($f^{primeprime}(x)$) just had a jump discontinuity.
– JonathanZ
2 days ago






1




1




@CarstenS Sure, but if I remember correctly, cubic splines have jumps in the third derivative and the junction points
– martini
2 days ago




@CarstenS Sure, but if I remember correctly, cubic splines have jumps in the third derivative and the junction points
– martini
2 days ago










4 Answers
4






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up vote
46
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Seeing the second derivative by eye is rather impossible as the examples in the other answers show. Nonetheless there is a good way to visualize the second derivative as curvature, which gives a good way to see the discontinuities if some additional visual aids are available.



Whereas the first derivative describes the slope of the line that best approximates the graph, the second derivative describes the curvature of the best approximating circle. The best approximating circle to the graph of $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ at a point $x$ is the circle tangent to $(x,f(x))$ with radius equal to $((1+f'(x)^2)^{3/2})/leftvert f''(x) rightvert$. This leaves exactly two possible circles, and the sign of $f''(x)$ determines which is the correct one. That is, whether the circle should be above ($f''(x)>0$) or below ($f''(x)<0$) the graph. Note that the case when $f''(x)=0$ corresponds to a circle with "infinite" radius, i.e., just a line.



As a demonstration, consider the difference between some of the functions mentioned before. For $xmapsto x^3$, the second derivative is continuous, and the best approximating circle varies in a continuous manner ("continuous" here needs to be interpreted with care, since the radius passes through the degenerate $infty$-case when it switches sign)



approximating circles for cubic



For $xmapsto begin{cases}x^2,&x>0\-x^2,&xleq 0end{cases}$ the best approximating circle has a visible discontinuity at $x=0$, where the circle abruptly hops from one side to the other.



approximating circles for flipped quadratic



The pictures above were made with Sage. The code used to create the second one is below to play around with:



def tangent_circle(f,x0,df=None):
if df is None:
df = f.derivative(x)
r = (1+df(x=x0)^2)^(3/2)/df.derivative(x)(x=x0)
tang = df(x=x0)
unitnormal = vector(SR,(-tang,1))/sqrt(1+tang^2)
c = vector(SR,(x0,f(x0)))+unitnormal*r
return c,r

def plot_curvatures(f,df=None,plotrange=(-1.2,1.2),xran=(-1,1),framenum=50):
fplot = plot(f,(x,plotrange[0],plotrange[1]),aspect_ratio=1,color="black")
xmin = xran[0]
xmax = xran[1]
pts = [xmin+(xmax-xmin)*(k/(framenum-1)) for k in range(framenum)]
return [fplot+circle((x0,f(x0)),0.03,fill=True,color="blue")+circle(*tangent_circle(f,x0,df),color="blue") for x0 in pts]

f = lambda x: x^2 if x>0 else -x^2
df = 2*abs(x)
frames = plot_curvatures(f,df)
animate(frames,xmin=-1.5,xmax=1.5,ymin=-1,ymax=1)





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  • 1




    Great figures. Did you make them yourself? [otherwise, please cite the source! Thanks]
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 6 at 20:11






  • 2




    +1 lovely picture
    – Ethan Bolker
    Nov 6 at 21:30






  • 1




    Lines for first derivative, circles for second derivative, is there an analogue for the third derivative?
    – Surb
    Nov 7 at 8:31






  • 1




    @surb we're talking about a point (0D) on a curve (zeroth derivative), which get's inflated to a line (1D) for the first derivative and to a circle (2D) for the second derivative. A sphere (3D) for the third derivative seems only logical to me. Think of it like pulling the sphere through the plane which results in changing circles on the plane. The faster the circles change, the smaller the sphere.
    – DonQuiKong
    Nov 7 at 10:07








  • 1




    @DonQuiKong yeah, it is just a representation, however both the line and circle seem kind of the “aesthetically unique way to go” for approximating a curve to match the first and second derivative, respectively. It would be nice to formalise this in such a way that every order gives rise to a unique approximation, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be closed loops of any sort. And a sphere would not even be a better approximation to third order.
    – leftaroundabout
    2 days ago




















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9
down vote













Whether or not you can "see" this is in some sense a question about the acuity of human vision. I think the answer is "no". If you graph the function
$$
g(x) = int_0^x |t|dt
$$

you will see the usual parabola in the right half plane and its negative in the left half plane. They meet at the origin with derivative $0$. The derivative of this function is $|x|$, whose derivative is undefined at $0$. The second derivative is $-1$ on the left and $1$ on the right, undefined at the origin.



Plot that and see if you can see the second derivative. Unless you draw it really carefully and know what you are looking for the graph will look like that of $x^3$, which is quite respectable.






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  • +1, I was just about to write this example.
    – Ennar
    Nov 6 at 19:19






  • 11




    FWIW, $g(x)=frac12 x|x|$.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 6 at 20:10


















up vote
2
down vote













Assuming your graph is made from reflective material, you can see discontinuous second derivatives in the reflection. For example, if you stand at $(0,-1)$ and look upwards at the graph of $f(x)=max{x,0}$ the reflection will have a discontinuity at the point of nondifferentiability of $f$, namely $(0,0)$, even though $f$ is continuous there. Similarly, if you look at a diffferentiable graph that is differentiable but not twice differentiable, the reflection will not be differentiable.






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    0
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    Not sure if there is a "picture rigorous" way of checking, but there are subtle clues that could indicate it's possible.



    For instance, if you know the first derivative $f'$ has a "corner" at $x=a$, then the graph of $f$ has to be monotonically increasing/decreasing around $x=a$. Furthermore, this indicates a change in concavity has to be present. So places where you have




    • a change in concavity AND

    • don't change increasing/decreasing behavior (we allow derivative of zero here),


    then it could happen at that point (in terms of limiting down the choice of possibilities). Take for instance the antiderivative of $|x|$.



    enter image description here



    Obviously this isn't saying this is always true (see $x^3$ for instance). Just that if you want to narrow your focus to potential points, do this trick.



    Please let me know if there is something I'm missing or wrong about.






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    • 1




      So, what exactly do you see at that plot that would tell you there is no second derivative at $0$? Why don't you plot $x^3$ next to it and tell me the qualitative difference.
      – Ennar
      Nov 6 at 19:23












    • Not saying it occurs. Just that it is possible.
      – welshman500
      Nov 6 at 19:24






    • 1




      The question is how to spot it from the graph. With $|x|$ it's quite obvious where it isn't differentiable, and similarly for any continuous function not differentiable at some point. I wouldn't say you could see the same thing about second derivative just from the graph.
      – Ennar
      Nov 6 at 19:25








    • 3




      The antiderivative of $2x+|x|$ is strictly increasing and strictly concave up everywhere, but still has the same problems.
      – Teepeemm
      Nov 6 at 20:08











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    4 Answers
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    active

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    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    46
    down vote



    accepted










    Seeing the second derivative by eye is rather impossible as the examples in the other answers show. Nonetheless there is a good way to visualize the second derivative as curvature, which gives a good way to see the discontinuities if some additional visual aids are available.



    Whereas the first derivative describes the slope of the line that best approximates the graph, the second derivative describes the curvature of the best approximating circle. The best approximating circle to the graph of $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ at a point $x$ is the circle tangent to $(x,f(x))$ with radius equal to $((1+f'(x)^2)^{3/2})/leftvert f''(x) rightvert$. This leaves exactly two possible circles, and the sign of $f''(x)$ determines which is the correct one. That is, whether the circle should be above ($f''(x)>0$) or below ($f''(x)<0$) the graph. Note that the case when $f''(x)=0$ corresponds to a circle with "infinite" radius, i.e., just a line.



    As a demonstration, consider the difference between some of the functions mentioned before. For $xmapsto x^3$, the second derivative is continuous, and the best approximating circle varies in a continuous manner ("continuous" here needs to be interpreted with care, since the radius passes through the degenerate $infty$-case when it switches sign)



    approximating circles for cubic



    For $xmapsto begin{cases}x^2,&x>0\-x^2,&xleq 0end{cases}$ the best approximating circle has a visible discontinuity at $x=0$, where the circle abruptly hops from one side to the other.



    approximating circles for flipped quadratic



    The pictures above were made with Sage. The code used to create the second one is below to play around with:



    def tangent_circle(f,x0,df=None):
    if df is None:
    df = f.derivative(x)
    r = (1+df(x=x0)^2)^(3/2)/df.derivative(x)(x=x0)
    tang = df(x=x0)
    unitnormal = vector(SR,(-tang,1))/sqrt(1+tang^2)
    c = vector(SR,(x0,f(x0)))+unitnormal*r
    return c,r

    def plot_curvatures(f,df=None,plotrange=(-1.2,1.2),xran=(-1,1),framenum=50):
    fplot = plot(f,(x,plotrange[0],plotrange[1]),aspect_ratio=1,color="black")
    xmin = xran[0]
    xmax = xran[1]
    pts = [xmin+(xmax-xmin)*(k/(framenum-1)) for k in range(framenum)]
    return [fplot+circle((x0,f(x0)),0.03,fill=True,color="blue")+circle(*tangent_circle(f,x0,df),color="blue") for x0 in pts]

    f = lambda x: x^2 if x>0 else -x^2
    df = 2*abs(x)
    frames = plot_curvatures(f,df)
    animate(frames,xmin=-1.5,xmax=1.5,ymin=-1,ymax=1)





    share|cite|improve this answer



















    • 1




      Great figures. Did you make them yourself? [otherwise, please cite the source! Thanks]
      – AccidentalFourierTransform
      Nov 6 at 20:11






    • 2




      +1 lovely picture
      – Ethan Bolker
      Nov 6 at 21:30






    • 1




      Lines for first derivative, circles for second derivative, is there an analogue for the third derivative?
      – Surb
      Nov 7 at 8:31






    • 1




      @surb we're talking about a point (0D) on a curve (zeroth derivative), which get's inflated to a line (1D) for the first derivative and to a circle (2D) for the second derivative. A sphere (3D) for the third derivative seems only logical to me. Think of it like pulling the sphere through the plane which results in changing circles on the plane. The faster the circles change, the smaller the sphere.
      – DonQuiKong
      Nov 7 at 10:07








    • 1




      @DonQuiKong yeah, it is just a representation, however both the line and circle seem kind of the “aesthetically unique way to go” for approximating a curve to match the first and second derivative, respectively. It would be nice to formalise this in such a way that every order gives rise to a unique approximation, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be closed loops of any sort. And a sphere would not even be a better approximation to third order.
      – leftaroundabout
      2 days ago

















    up vote
    46
    down vote



    accepted










    Seeing the second derivative by eye is rather impossible as the examples in the other answers show. Nonetheless there is a good way to visualize the second derivative as curvature, which gives a good way to see the discontinuities if some additional visual aids are available.



    Whereas the first derivative describes the slope of the line that best approximates the graph, the second derivative describes the curvature of the best approximating circle. The best approximating circle to the graph of $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ at a point $x$ is the circle tangent to $(x,f(x))$ with radius equal to $((1+f'(x)^2)^{3/2})/leftvert f''(x) rightvert$. This leaves exactly two possible circles, and the sign of $f''(x)$ determines which is the correct one. That is, whether the circle should be above ($f''(x)>0$) or below ($f''(x)<0$) the graph. Note that the case when $f''(x)=0$ corresponds to a circle with "infinite" radius, i.e., just a line.



    As a demonstration, consider the difference between some of the functions mentioned before. For $xmapsto x^3$, the second derivative is continuous, and the best approximating circle varies in a continuous manner ("continuous" here needs to be interpreted with care, since the radius passes through the degenerate $infty$-case when it switches sign)



    approximating circles for cubic



    For $xmapsto begin{cases}x^2,&x>0\-x^2,&xleq 0end{cases}$ the best approximating circle has a visible discontinuity at $x=0$, where the circle abruptly hops from one side to the other.



    approximating circles for flipped quadratic



    The pictures above were made with Sage. The code used to create the second one is below to play around with:



    def tangent_circle(f,x0,df=None):
    if df is None:
    df = f.derivative(x)
    r = (1+df(x=x0)^2)^(3/2)/df.derivative(x)(x=x0)
    tang = df(x=x0)
    unitnormal = vector(SR,(-tang,1))/sqrt(1+tang^2)
    c = vector(SR,(x0,f(x0)))+unitnormal*r
    return c,r

    def plot_curvatures(f,df=None,plotrange=(-1.2,1.2),xran=(-1,1),framenum=50):
    fplot = plot(f,(x,plotrange[0],plotrange[1]),aspect_ratio=1,color="black")
    xmin = xran[0]
    xmax = xran[1]
    pts = [xmin+(xmax-xmin)*(k/(framenum-1)) for k in range(framenum)]
    return [fplot+circle((x0,f(x0)),0.03,fill=True,color="blue")+circle(*tangent_circle(f,x0,df),color="blue") for x0 in pts]

    f = lambda x: x^2 if x>0 else -x^2
    df = 2*abs(x)
    frames = plot_curvatures(f,df)
    animate(frames,xmin=-1.5,xmax=1.5,ymin=-1,ymax=1)





    share|cite|improve this answer



















    • 1




      Great figures. Did you make them yourself? [otherwise, please cite the source! Thanks]
      – AccidentalFourierTransform
      Nov 6 at 20:11






    • 2




      +1 lovely picture
      – Ethan Bolker
      Nov 6 at 21:30






    • 1




      Lines for first derivative, circles for second derivative, is there an analogue for the third derivative?
      – Surb
      Nov 7 at 8:31






    • 1




      @surb we're talking about a point (0D) on a curve (zeroth derivative), which get's inflated to a line (1D) for the first derivative and to a circle (2D) for the second derivative. A sphere (3D) for the third derivative seems only logical to me. Think of it like pulling the sphere through the plane which results in changing circles on the plane. The faster the circles change, the smaller the sphere.
      – DonQuiKong
      Nov 7 at 10:07








    • 1




      @DonQuiKong yeah, it is just a representation, however both the line and circle seem kind of the “aesthetically unique way to go” for approximating a curve to match the first and second derivative, respectively. It would be nice to formalise this in such a way that every order gives rise to a unique approximation, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be closed loops of any sort. And a sphere would not even be a better approximation to third order.
      – leftaroundabout
      2 days ago















    up vote
    46
    down vote



    accepted







    up vote
    46
    down vote



    accepted






    Seeing the second derivative by eye is rather impossible as the examples in the other answers show. Nonetheless there is a good way to visualize the second derivative as curvature, which gives a good way to see the discontinuities if some additional visual aids are available.



    Whereas the first derivative describes the slope of the line that best approximates the graph, the second derivative describes the curvature of the best approximating circle. The best approximating circle to the graph of $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ at a point $x$ is the circle tangent to $(x,f(x))$ with radius equal to $((1+f'(x)^2)^{3/2})/leftvert f''(x) rightvert$. This leaves exactly two possible circles, and the sign of $f''(x)$ determines which is the correct one. That is, whether the circle should be above ($f''(x)>0$) or below ($f''(x)<0$) the graph. Note that the case when $f''(x)=0$ corresponds to a circle with "infinite" radius, i.e., just a line.



    As a demonstration, consider the difference between some of the functions mentioned before. For $xmapsto x^3$, the second derivative is continuous, and the best approximating circle varies in a continuous manner ("continuous" here needs to be interpreted with care, since the radius passes through the degenerate $infty$-case when it switches sign)



    approximating circles for cubic



    For $xmapsto begin{cases}x^2,&x>0\-x^2,&xleq 0end{cases}$ the best approximating circle has a visible discontinuity at $x=0$, where the circle abruptly hops from one side to the other.



    approximating circles for flipped quadratic



    The pictures above were made with Sage. The code used to create the second one is below to play around with:



    def tangent_circle(f,x0,df=None):
    if df is None:
    df = f.derivative(x)
    r = (1+df(x=x0)^2)^(3/2)/df.derivative(x)(x=x0)
    tang = df(x=x0)
    unitnormal = vector(SR,(-tang,1))/sqrt(1+tang^2)
    c = vector(SR,(x0,f(x0)))+unitnormal*r
    return c,r

    def plot_curvatures(f,df=None,plotrange=(-1.2,1.2),xran=(-1,1),framenum=50):
    fplot = plot(f,(x,plotrange[0],plotrange[1]),aspect_ratio=1,color="black")
    xmin = xran[0]
    xmax = xran[1]
    pts = [xmin+(xmax-xmin)*(k/(framenum-1)) for k in range(framenum)]
    return [fplot+circle((x0,f(x0)),0.03,fill=True,color="blue")+circle(*tangent_circle(f,x0,df),color="blue") for x0 in pts]

    f = lambda x: x^2 if x>0 else -x^2
    df = 2*abs(x)
    frames = plot_curvatures(f,df)
    animate(frames,xmin=-1.5,xmax=1.5,ymin=-1,ymax=1)





    share|cite|improve this answer














    Seeing the second derivative by eye is rather impossible as the examples in the other answers show. Nonetheless there is a good way to visualize the second derivative as curvature, which gives a good way to see the discontinuities if some additional visual aids are available.



    Whereas the first derivative describes the slope of the line that best approximates the graph, the second derivative describes the curvature of the best approximating circle. The best approximating circle to the graph of $f:mathbb{R}tomathbb{R}$ at a point $x$ is the circle tangent to $(x,f(x))$ with radius equal to $((1+f'(x)^2)^{3/2})/leftvert f''(x) rightvert$. This leaves exactly two possible circles, and the sign of $f''(x)$ determines which is the correct one. That is, whether the circle should be above ($f''(x)>0$) or below ($f''(x)<0$) the graph. Note that the case when $f''(x)=0$ corresponds to a circle with "infinite" radius, i.e., just a line.



    As a demonstration, consider the difference between some of the functions mentioned before. For $xmapsto x^3$, the second derivative is continuous, and the best approximating circle varies in a continuous manner ("continuous" here needs to be interpreted with care, since the radius passes through the degenerate $infty$-case when it switches sign)



    approximating circles for cubic



    For $xmapsto begin{cases}x^2,&x>0\-x^2,&xleq 0end{cases}$ the best approximating circle has a visible discontinuity at $x=0$, where the circle abruptly hops from one side to the other.



    approximating circles for flipped quadratic



    The pictures above were made with Sage. The code used to create the second one is below to play around with:



    def tangent_circle(f,x0,df=None):
    if df is None:
    df = f.derivative(x)
    r = (1+df(x=x0)^2)^(3/2)/df.derivative(x)(x=x0)
    tang = df(x=x0)
    unitnormal = vector(SR,(-tang,1))/sqrt(1+tang^2)
    c = vector(SR,(x0,f(x0)))+unitnormal*r
    return c,r

    def plot_curvatures(f,df=None,plotrange=(-1.2,1.2),xran=(-1,1),framenum=50):
    fplot = plot(f,(x,plotrange[0],plotrange[1]),aspect_ratio=1,color="black")
    xmin = xran[0]
    xmax = xran[1]
    pts = [xmin+(xmax-xmin)*(k/(framenum-1)) for k in range(framenum)]
    return [fplot+circle((x0,f(x0)),0.03,fill=True,color="blue")+circle(*tangent_circle(f,x0,df),color="blue") for x0 in pts]

    f = lambda x: x^2 if x>0 else -x^2
    df = 2*abs(x)
    frames = plot_curvatures(f,df)
    animate(frames,xmin=-1.5,xmax=1.5,ymin=-1,ymax=1)






    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Nov 6 at 20:33

























    answered Nov 6 at 20:10









    Eero Hakavuori

    1,46259




    1,46259








    • 1




      Great figures. Did you make them yourself? [otherwise, please cite the source! Thanks]
      – AccidentalFourierTransform
      Nov 6 at 20:11






    • 2




      +1 lovely picture
      – Ethan Bolker
      Nov 6 at 21:30






    • 1




      Lines for first derivative, circles for second derivative, is there an analogue for the third derivative?
      – Surb
      Nov 7 at 8:31






    • 1




      @surb we're talking about a point (0D) on a curve (zeroth derivative), which get's inflated to a line (1D) for the first derivative and to a circle (2D) for the second derivative. A sphere (3D) for the third derivative seems only logical to me. Think of it like pulling the sphere through the plane which results in changing circles on the plane. The faster the circles change, the smaller the sphere.
      – DonQuiKong
      Nov 7 at 10:07








    • 1




      @DonQuiKong yeah, it is just a representation, however both the line and circle seem kind of the “aesthetically unique way to go” for approximating a curve to match the first and second derivative, respectively. It would be nice to formalise this in such a way that every order gives rise to a unique approximation, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be closed loops of any sort. And a sphere would not even be a better approximation to third order.
      – leftaroundabout
      2 days ago
















    • 1




      Great figures. Did you make them yourself? [otherwise, please cite the source! Thanks]
      – AccidentalFourierTransform
      Nov 6 at 20:11






    • 2




      +1 lovely picture
      – Ethan Bolker
      Nov 6 at 21:30






    • 1




      Lines for first derivative, circles for second derivative, is there an analogue for the third derivative?
      – Surb
      Nov 7 at 8:31






    • 1




      @surb we're talking about a point (0D) on a curve (zeroth derivative), which get's inflated to a line (1D) for the first derivative and to a circle (2D) for the second derivative. A sphere (3D) for the third derivative seems only logical to me. Think of it like pulling the sphere through the plane which results in changing circles on the plane. The faster the circles change, the smaller the sphere.
      – DonQuiKong
      Nov 7 at 10:07








    • 1




      @DonQuiKong yeah, it is just a representation, however both the line and circle seem kind of the “aesthetically unique way to go” for approximating a curve to match the first and second derivative, respectively. It would be nice to formalise this in such a way that every order gives rise to a unique approximation, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be closed loops of any sort. And a sphere would not even be a better approximation to third order.
      – leftaroundabout
      2 days ago










    1




    1




    Great figures. Did you make them yourself? [otherwise, please cite the source! Thanks]
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 6 at 20:11




    Great figures. Did you make them yourself? [otherwise, please cite the source! Thanks]
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 6 at 20:11




    2




    2




    +1 lovely picture
    – Ethan Bolker
    Nov 6 at 21:30




    +1 lovely picture
    – Ethan Bolker
    Nov 6 at 21:30




    1




    1




    Lines for first derivative, circles for second derivative, is there an analogue for the third derivative?
    – Surb
    Nov 7 at 8:31




    Lines for first derivative, circles for second derivative, is there an analogue for the third derivative?
    – Surb
    Nov 7 at 8:31




    1




    1




    @surb we're talking about a point (0D) on a curve (zeroth derivative), which get's inflated to a line (1D) for the first derivative and to a circle (2D) for the second derivative. A sphere (3D) for the third derivative seems only logical to me. Think of it like pulling the sphere through the plane which results in changing circles on the plane. The faster the circles change, the smaller the sphere.
    – DonQuiKong
    Nov 7 at 10:07






    @surb we're talking about a point (0D) on a curve (zeroth derivative), which get's inflated to a line (1D) for the first derivative and to a circle (2D) for the second derivative. A sphere (3D) for the third derivative seems only logical to me. Think of it like pulling the sphere through the plane which results in changing circles on the plane. The faster the circles change, the smaller the sphere.
    – DonQuiKong
    Nov 7 at 10:07






    1




    1




    @DonQuiKong yeah, it is just a representation, however both the line and circle seem kind of the “aesthetically unique way to go” for approximating a curve to match the first and second derivative, respectively. It would be nice to formalise this in such a way that every order gives rise to a unique approximation, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be closed loops of any sort. And a sphere would not even be a better approximation to third order.
    – leftaroundabout
    2 days ago






    @DonQuiKong yeah, it is just a representation, however both the line and circle seem kind of the “aesthetically unique way to go” for approximating a curve to match the first and second derivative, respectively. It would be nice to formalise this in such a way that every order gives rise to a unique approximation, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be closed loops of any sort. And a sphere would not even be a better approximation to third order.
    – leftaroundabout
    2 days ago












    up vote
    9
    down vote













    Whether or not you can "see" this is in some sense a question about the acuity of human vision. I think the answer is "no". If you graph the function
    $$
    g(x) = int_0^x |t|dt
    $$

    you will see the usual parabola in the right half plane and its negative in the left half plane. They meet at the origin with derivative $0$. The derivative of this function is $|x|$, whose derivative is undefined at $0$. The second derivative is $-1$ on the left and $1$ on the right, undefined at the origin.



    Plot that and see if you can see the second derivative. Unless you draw it really carefully and know what you are looking for the graph will look like that of $x^3$, which is quite respectable.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • +1, I was just about to write this example.
      – Ennar
      Nov 6 at 19:19






    • 11




      FWIW, $g(x)=frac12 x|x|$.
      – AccidentalFourierTransform
      Nov 6 at 20:10















    up vote
    9
    down vote













    Whether or not you can "see" this is in some sense a question about the acuity of human vision. I think the answer is "no". If you graph the function
    $$
    g(x) = int_0^x |t|dt
    $$

    you will see the usual parabola in the right half plane and its negative in the left half plane. They meet at the origin with derivative $0$. The derivative of this function is $|x|$, whose derivative is undefined at $0$. The second derivative is $-1$ on the left and $1$ on the right, undefined at the origin.



    Plot that and see if you can see the second derivative. Unless you draw it really carefully and know what you are looking for the graph will look like that of $x^3$, which is quite respectable.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • +1, I was just about to write this example.
      – Ennar
      Nov 6 at 19:19






    • 11




      FWIW, $g(x)=frac12 x|x|$.
      – AccidentalFourierTransform
      Nov 6 at 20:10













    up vote
    9
    down vote










    up vote
    9
    down vote









    Whether or not you can "see" this is in some sense a question about the acuity of human vision. I think the answer is "no". If you graph the function
    $$
    g(x) = int_0^x |t|dt
    $$

    you will see the usual parabola in the right half plane and its negative in the left half plane. They meet at the origin with derivative $0$. The derivative of this function is $|x|$, whose derivative is undefined at $0$. The second derivative is $-1$ on the left and $1$ on the right, undefined at the origin.



    Plot that and see if you can see the second derivative. Unless you draw it really carefully and know what you are looking for the graph will look like that of $x^3$, which is quite respectable.






    share|cite|improve this answer












    Whether or not you can "see" this is in some sense a question about the acuity of human vision. I think the answer is "no". If you graph the function
    $$
    g(x) = int_0^x |t|dt
    $$

    you will see the usual parabola in the right half plane and its negative in the left half plane. They meet at the origin with derivative $0$. The derivative of this function is $|x|$, whose derivative is undefined at $0$. The second derivative is $-1$ on the left and $1$ on the right, undefined at the origin.



    Plot that and see if you can see the second derivative. Unless you draw it really carefully and know what you are looking for the graph will look like that of $x^3$, which is quite respectable.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Nov 6 at 19:15









    Ethan Bolker

    38.7k543102




    38.7k543102












    • +1, I was just about to write this example.
      – Ennar
      Nov 6 at 19:19






    • 11




      FWIW, $g(x)=frac12 x|x|$.
      – AccidentalFourierTransform
      Nov 6 at 20:10


















    • +1, I was just about to write this example.
      – Ennar
      Nov 6 at 19:19






    • 11




      FWIW, $g(x)=frac12 x|x|$.
      – AccidentalFourierTransform
      Nov 6 at 20:10
















    +1, I was just about to write this example.
    – Ennar
    Nov 6 at 19:19




    +1, I was just about to write this example.
    – Ennar
    Nov 6 at 19:19




    11




    11




    FWIW, $g(x)=frac12 x|x|$.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 6 at 20:10




    FWIW, $g(x)=frac12 x|x|$.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 6 at 20:10










    up vote
    2
    down vote













    Assuming your graph is made from reflective material, you can see discontinuous second derivatives in the reflection. For example, if you stand at $(0,-1)$ and look upwards at the graph of $f(x)=max{x,0}$ the reflection will have a discontinuity at the point of nondifferentiability of $f$, namely $(0,0)$, even though $f$ is continuous there. Similarly, if you look at a diffferentiable graph that is differentiable but not twice differentiable, the reflection will not be differentiable.






    share|cite|improve this answer

























      up vote
      2
      down vote













      Assuming your graph is made from reflective material, you can see discontinuous second derivatives in the reflection. For example, if you stand at $(0,-1)$ and look upwards at the graph of $f(x)=max{x,0}$ the reflection will have a discontinuity at the point of nondifferentiability of $f$, namely $(0,0)$, even though $f$ is continuous there. Similarly, if you look at a diffferentiable graph that is differentiable but not twice differentiable, the reflection will not be differentiable.






      share|cite|improve this answer























        up vote
        2
        down vote










        up vote
        2
        down vote









        Assuming your graph is made from reflective material, you can see discontinuous second derivatives in the reflection. For example, if you stand at $(0,-1)$ and look upwards at the graph of $f(x)=max{x,0}$ the reflection will have a discontinuity at the point of nondifferentiability of $f$, namely $(0,0)$, even though $f$ is continuous there. Similarly, if you look at a diffferentiable graph that is differentiable but not twice differentiable, the reflection will not be differentiable.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        Assuming your graph is made from reflective material, you can see discontinuous second derivatives in the reflection. For example, if you stand at $(0,-1)$ and look upwards at the graph of $f(x)=max{x,0}$ the reflection will have a discontinuity at the point of nondifferentiability of $f$, namely $(0,0)$, even though $f$ is continuous there. Similarly, if you look at a diffferentiable graph that is differentiable but not twice differentiable, the reflection will not be differentiable.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered 2 days ago









        Bananach

        3,60811229




        3,60811229






















            up vote
            0
            down vote













            Not sure if there is a "picture rigorous" way of checking, but there are subtle clues that could indicate it's possible.



            For instance, if you know the first derivative $f'$ has a "corner" at $x=a$, then the graph of $f$ has to be monotonically increasing/decreasing around $x=a$. Furthermore, this indicates a change in concavity has to be present. So places where you have




            • a change in concavity AND

            • don't change increasing/decreasing behavior (we allow derivative of zero here),


            then it could happen at that point (in terms of limiting down the choice of possibilities). Take for instance the antiderivative of $|x|$.



            enter image description here



            Obviously this isn't saying this is always true (see $x^3$ for instance). Just that if you want to narrow your focus to potential points, do this trick.



            Please let me know if there is something I'm missing or wrong about.






            share|cite|improve this answer



















            • 1




              So, what exactly do you see at that plot that would tell you there is no second derivative at $0$? Why don't you plot $x^3$ next to it and tell me the qualitative difference.
              – Ennar
              Nov 6 at 19:23












            • Not saying it occurs. Just that it is possible.
              – welshman500
              Nov 6 at 19:24






            • 1




              The question is how to spot it from the graph. With $|x|$ it's quite obvious where it isn't differentiable, and similarly for any continuous function not differentiable at some point. I wouldn't say you could see the same thing about second derivative just from the graph.
              – Ennar
              Nov 6 at 19:25








            • 3




              The antiderivative of $2x+|x|$ is strictly increasing and strictly concave up everywhere, but still has the same problems.
              – Teepeemm
              Nov 6 at 20:08















            up vote
            0
            down vote













            Not sure if there is a "picture rigorous" way of checking, but there are subtle clues that could indicate it's possible.



            For instance, if you know the first derivative $f'$ has a "corner" at $x=a$, then the graph of $f$ has to be monotonically increasing/decreasing around $x=a$. Furthermore, this indicates a change in concavity has to be present. So places where you have




            • a change in concavity AND

            • don't change increasing/decreasing behavior (we allow derivative of zero here),


            then it could happen at that point (in terms of limiting down the choice of possibilities). Take for instance the antiderivative of $|x|$.



            enter image description here



            Obviously this isn't saying this is always true (see $x^3$ for instance). Just that if you want to narrow your focus to potential points, do this trick.



            Please let me know if there is something I'm missing or wrong about.






            share|cite|improve this answer



















            • 1




              So, what exactly do you see at that plot that would tell you there is no second derivative at $0$? Why don't you plot $x^3$ next to it and tell me the qualitative difference.
              – Ennar
              Nov 6 at 19:23












            • Not saying it occurs. Just that it is possible.
              – welshman500
              Nov 6 at 19:24






            • 1




              The question is how to spot it from the graph. With $|x|$ it's quite obvious where it isn't differentiable, and similarly for any continuous function not differentiable at some point. I wouldn't say you could see the same thing about second derivative just from the graph.
              – Ennar
              Nov 6 at 19:25








            • 3




              The antiderivative of $2x+|x|$ is strictly increasing and strictly concave up everywhere, but still has the same problems.
              – Teepeemm
              Nov 6 at 20:08













            up vote
            0
            down vote










            up vote
            0
            down vote









            Not sure if there is a "picture rigorous" way of checking, but there are subtle clues that could indicate it's possible.



            For instance, if you know the first derivative $f'$ has a "corner" at $x=a$, then the graph of $f$ has to be monotonically increasing/decreasing around $x=a$. Furthermore, this indicates a change in concavity has to be present. So places where you have




            • a change in concavity AND

            • don't change increasing/decreasing behavior (we allow derivative of zero here),


            then it could happen at that point (in terms of limiting down the choice of possibilities). Take for instance the antiderivative of $|x|$.



            enter image description here



            Obviously this isn't saying this is always true (see $x^3$ for instance). Just that if you want to narrow your focus to potential points, do this trick.



            Please let me know if there is something I'm missing or wrong about.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            Not sure if there is a "picture rigorous" way of checking, but there are subtle clues that could indicate it's possible.



            For instance, if you know the first derivative $f'$ has a "corner" at $x=a$, then the graph of $f$ has to be monotonically increasing/decreasing around $x=a$. Furthermore, this indicates a change in concavity has to be present. So places where you have




            • a change in concavity AND

            • don't change increasing/decreasing behavior (we allow derivative of zero here),


            then it could happen at that point (in terms of limiting down the choice of possibilities). Take for instance the antiderivative of $|x|$.



            enter image description here



            Obviously this isn't saying this is always true (see $x^3$ for instance). Just that if you want to narrow your focus to potential points, do this trick.



            Please let me know if there is something I'm missing or wrong about.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Nov 6 at 19:23

























            answered Nov 6 at 19:20









            welshman500

            366214




            366214








            • 1




              So, what exactly do you see at that plot that would tell you there is no second derivative at $0$? Why don't you plot $x^3$ next to it and tell me the qualitative difference.
              – Ennar
              Nov 6 at 19:23












            • Not saying it occurs. Just that it is possible.
              – welshman500
              Nov 6 at 19:24






            • 1




              The question is how to spot it from the graph. With $|x|$ it's quite obvious where it isn't differentiable, and similarly for any continuous function not differentiable at some point. I wouldn't say you could see the same thing about second derivative just from the graph.
              – Ennar
              Nov 6 at 19:25








            • 3




              The antiderivative of $2x+|x|$ is strictly increasing and strictly concave up everywhere, but still has the same problems.
              – Teepeemm
              Nov 6 at 20:08














            • 1




              So, what exactly do you see at that plot that would tell you there is no second derivative at $0$? Why don't you plot $x^3$ next to it and tell me the qualitative difference.
              – Ennar
              Nov 6 at 19:23












            • Not saying it occurs. Just that it is possible.
              – welshman500
              Nov 6 at 19:24






            • 1




              The question is how to spot it from the graph. With $|x|$ it's quite obvious where it isn't differentiable, and similarly for any continuous function not differentiable at some point. I wouldn't say you could see the same thing about second derivative just from the graph.
              – Ennar
              Nov 6 at 19:25








            • 3




              The antiderivative of $2x+|x|$ is strictly increasing and strictly concave up everywhere, but still has the same problems.
              – Teepeemm
              Nov 6 at 20:08








            1




            1




            So, what exactly do you see at that plot that would tell you there is no second derivative at $0$? Why don't you plot $x^3$ next to it and tell me the qualitative difference.
            – Ennar
            Nov 6 at 19:23






            So, what exactly do you see at that plot that would tell you there is no second derivative at $0$? Why don't you plot $x^3$ next to it and tell me the qualitative difference.
            – Ennar
            Nov 6 at 19:23














            Not saying it occurs. Just that it is possible.
            – welshman500
            Nov 6 at 19:24




            Not saying it occurs. Just that it is possible.
            – welshman500
            Nov 6 at 19:24




            1




            1




            The question is how to spot it from the graph. With $|x|$ it's quite obvious where it isn't differentiable, and similarly for any continuous function not differentiable at some point. I wouldn't say you could see the same thing about second derivative just from the graph.
            – Ennar
            Nov 6 at 19:25






            The question is how to spot it from the graph. With $|x|$ it's quite obvious where it isn't differentiable, and similarly for any continuous function not differentiable at some point. I wouldn't say you could see the same thing about second derivative just from the graph.
            – Ennar
            Nov 6 at 19:25






            3




            3




            The antiderivative of $2x+|x|$ is strictly increasing and strictly concave up everywhere, but still has the same problems.
            – Teepeemm
            Nov 6 at 20:08




            The antiderivative of $2x+|x|$ is strictly increasing and strictly concave up everywhere, but still has the same problems.
            – Teepeemm
            Nov 6 at 20:08


















             

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