What is the progression from A minor to F minor called?











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I'm a beginner piano player and theorist and played around on the piano and came across this progression from Am to Fm which has a very grim and black metalesque/dungeon synthy sound. I couldn't find any songs with this progression using hooktheory.



I can't fit it into a chord progression I know of and don't know how to continue this nice grim sound. Can anyone point in a direction where to look further for the underlying theory?



Continuing with Dm E sound ok, but not as convincing as Am to Fm.










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  • You could finish the circle by moving to C#/Db minor.
    – Matt L.
    Nov 6 at 21:07






  • 1




    Ah, the Lord of the Rings progression
    – MCMastery
    2 days ago






  • 1




    @MCMastery And Vader's Theme! (But it begins on G minor.)
    – Richard
    2 days ago










  • One reason why it works is that your Fm looks like E7(9b, 13b). Replace the C in the Fm with B, and you get something quite "classical" (if you voice it correctly).
    – Alexandre C.
    yesterday










  • I have a "quasi-example" (admittedly very ambiguous) in a Bach fugue. I just asked about it there : music.stackexchange.com/questions/76305/…
    – Alexandre C.
    yesterday















up vote
5
down vote

favorite
4












I'm a beginner piano player and theorist and played around on the piano and came across this progression from Am to Fm which has a very grim and black metalesque/dungeon synthy sound. I couldn't find any songs with this progression using hooktheory.



I can't fit it into a chord progression I know of and don't know how to continue this nice grim sound. Can anyone point in a direction where to look further for the underlying theory?



Continuing with Dm E sound ok, but not as convincing as Am to Fm.










share|improve this question
























  • You could finish the circle by moving to C#/Db minor.
    – Matt L.
    Nov 6 at 21:07






  • 1




    Ah, the Lord of the Rings progression
    – MCMastery
    2 days ago






  • 1




    @MCMastery And Vader's Theme! (But it begins on G minor.)
    – Richard
    2 days ago










  • One reason why it works is that your Fm looks like E7(9b, 13b). Replace the C in the Fm with B, and you get something quite "classical" (if you voice it correctly).
    – Alexandre C.
    yesterday










  • I have a "quasi-example" (admittedly very ambiguous) in a Bach fugue. I just asked about it there : music.stackexchange.com/questions/76305/…
    – Alexandre C.
    yesterday













up vote
5
down vote

favorite
4









up vote
5
down vote

favorite
4






4





I'm a beginner piano player and theorist and played around on the piano and came across this progression from Am to Fm which has a very grim and black metalesque/dungeon synthy sound. I couldn't find any songs with this progression using hooktheory.



I can't fit it into a chord progression I know of and don't know how to continue this nice grim sound. Can anyone point in a direction where to look further for the underlying theory?



Continuing with Dm E sound ok, but not as convincing as Am to Fm.










share|improve this question















I'm a beginner piano player and theorist and played around on the piano and came across this progression from Am to Fm which has a very grim and black metalesque/dungeon synthy sound. I couldn't find any songs with this progression using hooktheory.



I can't fit it into a chord progression I know of and don't know how to continue this nice grim sound. Can anyone point in a direction where to look further for the underlying theory?



Continuing with Dm E sound ok, but not as convincing as Am to Fm.







theory chord-progressions






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 days ago









Richard

34.9k677148




34.9k677148










asked Nov 6 at 20:09









Viktor Mellgren

1716




1716












  • You could finish the circle by moving to C#/Db minor.
    – Matt L.
    Nov 6 at 21:07






  • 1




    Ah, the Lord of the Rings progression
    – MCMastery
    2 days ago






  • 1




    @MCMastery And Vader's Theme! (But it begins on G minor.)
    – Richard
    2 days ago










  • One reason why it works is that your Fm looks like E7(9b, 13b). Replace the C in the Fm with B, and you get something quite "classical" (if you voice it correctly).
    – Alexandre C.
    yesterday










  • I have a "quasi-example" (admittedly very ambiguous) in a Bach fugue. I just asked about it there : music.stackexchange.com/questions/76305/…
    – Alexandre C.
    yesterday


















  • You could finish the circle by moving to C#/Db minor.
    – Matt L.
    Nov 6 at 21:07






  • 1




    Ah, the Lord of the Rings progression
    – MCMastery
    2 days ago






  • 1




    @MCMastery And Vader's Theme! (But it begins on G minor.)
    – Richard
    2 days ago










  • One reason why it works is that your Fm looks like E7(9b, 13b). Replace the C in the Fm with B, and you get something quite "classical" (if you voice it correctly).
    – Alexandre C.
    yesterday










  • I have a "quasi-example" (admittedly very ambiguous) in a Bach fugue. I just asked about it there : music.stackexchange.com/questions/76305/…
    – Alexandre C.
    yesterday
















You could finish the circle by moving to C#/Db minor.
– Matt L.
Nov 6 at 21:07




You could finish the circle by moving to C#/Db minor.
– Matt L.
Nov 6 at 21:07




1




1




Ah, the Lord of the Rings progression
– MCMastery
2 days ago




Ah, the Lord of the Rings progression
– MCMastery
2 days ago




1




1




@MCMastery And Vader's Theme! (But it begins on G minor.)
– Richard
2 days ago




@MCMastery And Vader's Theme! (But it begins on G minor.)
– Richard
2 days ago












One reason why it works is that your Fm looks like E7(9b, 13b). Replace the C in the Fm with B, and you get something quite "classical" (if you voice it correctly).
– Alexandre C.
yesterday




One reason why it works is that your Fm looks like E7(9b, 13b). Replace the C in the Fm with B, and you get something quite "classical" (if you voice it correctly).
– Alexandre C.
yesterday












I have a "quasi-example" (admittedly very ambiguous) in a Bach fugue. I just asked about it there : music.stackexchange.com/questions/76305/…
– Alexandre C.
yesterday




I have a "quasi-example" (admittedly very ambiguous) in a Bach fugue. I just asked about it there : music.stackexchange.com/questions/76305/…
– Alexandre C.
yesterday










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
19
down vote



accepted










Chromatic mediant is the technical name
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_mediant



This is where the chord roots are a third apart and there is one common tone.



So with Fm and Am you have:




F, A flat, C

A, C, E


So the "C" is the common tone, and F and A chord roots are a third apart.



I think part of what makes the great sound is that the two moving voices move by half steps. Half steps are important with many chord resolutions/tendency tones.



Also, notice in that wiki article the example from Mozart K. 475 where the chromatic mediant relationship and the common tone are used to make a common-tone modulation to a distant key. So on a very large scale you could think of the Fm and Am relationship in terms of a key change.





A little add on for Dm and E.



I assume you mean E (major.)



Let's look at those pitches:




Dm = D, F, A
E = E, G#, B


If we put those in order: D, E, F, G#, A, B



One thing that should jump out is the F to G#. That happens to be an augmented second. To fast forward a bit... an augmented second comes up in the harmonic minor scale. In this case the G# is the leading tone of the A harmonic minor scale. The full scale being A, B, C, D, E, F, G#, A. Dm and E function as the iv and V in A minor.



If you are just going back an forth from Dm to E you are sort of hovering around the dominant V chord. Typically you would move from the domimant to the tonic i chord Am. You could try going to Am as part of that progression.






share|improve this answer






























    up vote
    8
    down vote













    We call this a chromatic mediant relationship.



    To put it simply, two chords are chromatic mediants of each other if their roots are a third apart and they share one common tone. In the case of A minor and F minor, the common tone is C. Furthermore, note that the two remaining voices move by half step into the second chord: the A in A minor moves to A♭ in the F-minor chord, and the E of A minor moves to the F in the F-minor chord. The smooth voice leading is what helps to keep this progression together.



    But note that F minor is not the only chord that fits this definition. There are three other chromatic mediants to this A-minor chord: C♯ minor, C minor, and F♯ minor.



    As it turns out, chromatic mediants are the same quality as the original chord. So if you want to quickly find the four chromatic mediants of a harmony, find the roots located up and down a major and minor third from the root, and remember that those triads will be the same quality (major or minor) as the original chord.






    share|improve this answer






























      up vote
      5
      down vote













      A different way of looking at what you did - and more importantly, where else you can go, is the fact that you've used two chords from parallel keys. C major and C minor. The Am is from C maj. and the Fm from Cm.



      'Borrowing' chords in this way works well, and now gives you quite a few choices as to what else may suit your needs. Any of the 7 from C major, and any of the 7 from C minor!






      share|improve this answer




























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        That could be called a chromatic mediant of A minor. Notice how the note C, the 3rd of A minor, is carried over to the F minor chord.






        share|improve this answer





















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          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes








          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          19
          down vote



          accepted










          Chromatic mediant is the technical name
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_mediant



          This is where the chord roots are a third apart and there is one common tone.



          So with Fm and Am you have:




          F, A flat, C

          A, C, E


          So the "C" is the common tone, and F and A chord roots are a third apart.



          I think part of what makes the great sound is that the two moving voices move by half steps. Half steps are important with many chord resolutions/tendency tones.



          Also, notice in that wiki article the example from Mozart K. 475 where the chromatic mediant relationship and the common tone are used to make a common-tone modulation to a distant key. So on a very large scale you could think of the Fm and Am relationship in terms of a key change.





          A little add on for Dm and E.



          I assume you mean E (major.)



          Let's look at those pitches:




          Dm = D, F, A
          E = E, G#, B


          If we put those in order: D, E, F, G#, A, B



          One thing that should jump out is the F to G#. That happens to be an augmented second. To fast forward a bit... an augmented second comes up in the harmonic minor scale. In this case the G# is the leading tone of the A harmonic minor scale. The full scale being A, B, C, D, E, F, G#, A. Dm and E function as the iv and V in A minor.



          If you are just going back an forth from Dm to E you are sort of hovering around the dominant V chord. Typically you would move from the domimant to the tonic i chord Am. You could try going to Am as part of that progression.






          share|improve this answer



























            up vote
            19
            down vote



            accepted










            Chromatic mediant is the technical name
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_mediant



            This is where the chord roots are a third apart and there is one common tone.



            So with Fm and Am you have:




            F, A flat, C

            A, C, E


            So the "C" is the common tone, and F and A chord roots are a third apart.



            I think part of what makes the great sound is that the two moving voices move by half steps. Half steps are important with many chord resolutions/tendency tones.



            Also, notice in that wiki article the example from Mozart K. 475 where the chromatic mediant relationship and the common tone are used to make a common-tone modulation to a distant key. So on a very large scale you could think of the Fm and Am relationship in terms of a key change.





            A little add on for Dm and E.



            I assume you mean E (major.)



            Let's look at those pitches:




            Dm = D, F, A
            E = E, G#, B


            If we put those in order: D, E, F, G#, A, B



            One thing that should jump out is the F to G#. That happens to be an augmented second. To fast forward a bit... an augmented second comes up in the harmonic minor scale. In this case the G# is the leading tone of the A harmonic minor scale. The full scale being A, B, C, D, E, F, G#, A. Dm and E function as the iv and V in A minor.



            If you are just going back an forth from Dm to E you are sort of hovering around the dominant V chord. Typically you would move from the domimant to the tonic i chord Am. You could try going to Am as part of that progression.






            share|improve this answer

























              up vote
              19
              down vote



              accepted







              up vote
              19
              down vote



              accepted






              Chromatic mediant is the technical name
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_mediant



              This is where the chord roots are a third apart and there is one common tone.



              So with Fm and Am you have:




              F, A flat, C

              A, C, E


              So the "C" is the common tone, and F and A chord roots are a third apart.



              I think part of what makes the great sound is that the two moving voices move by half steps. Half steps are important with many chord resolutions/tendency tones.



              Also, notice in that wiki article the example from Mozart K. 475 where the chromatic mediant relationship and the common tone are used to make a common-tone modulation to a distant key. So on a very large scale you could think of the Fm and Am relationship in terms of a key change.





              A little add on for Dm and E.



              I assume you mean E (major.)



              Let's look at those pitches:




              Dm = D, F, A
              E = E, G#, B


              If we put those in order: D, E, F, G#, A, B



              One thing that should jump out is the F to G#. That happens to be an augmented second. To fast forward a bit... an augmented second comes up in the harmonic minor scale. In this case the G# is the leading tone of the A harmonic minor scale. The full scale being A, B, C, D, E, F, G#, A. Dm and E function as the iv and V in A minor.



              If you are just going back an forth from Dm to E you are sort of hovering around the dominant V chord. Typically you would move from the domimant to the tonic i chord Am. You could try going to Am as part of that progression.






              share|improve this answer














              Chromatic mediant is the technical name
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_mediant



              This is where the chord roots are a third apart and there is one common tone.



              So with Fm and Am you have:




              F, A flat, C

              A, C, E


              So the "C" is the common tone, and F and A chord roots are a third apart.



              I think part of what makes the great sound is that the two moving voices move by half steps. Half steps are important with many chord resolutions/tendency tones.



              Also, notice in that wiki article the example from Mozart K. 475 where the chromatic mediant relationship and the common tone are used to make a common-tone modulation to a distant key. So on a very large scale you could think of the Fm and Am relationship in terms of a key change.





              A little add on for Dm and E.



              I assume you mean E (major.)



              Let's look at those pitches:




              Dm = D, F, A
              E = E, G#, B


              If we put those in order: D, E, F, G#, A, B



              One thing that should jump out is the F to G#. That happens to be an augmented second. To fast forward a bit... an augmented second comes up in the harmonic minor scale. In this case the G# is the leading tone of the A harmonic minor scale. The full scale being A, B, C, D, E, F, G#, A. Dm and E function as the iv and V in A minor.



              If you are just going back an forth from Dm to E you are sort of hovering around the dominant V chord. Typically you would move from the domimant to the tonic i chord Am. You could try going to Am as part of that progression.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 2 days ago









              Dom

              35k18100215




              35k18100215










              answered Nov 6 at 20:19









              Michael Curtis

              3,624321




              3,624321






















                  up vote
                  8
                  down vote













                  We call this a chromatic mediant relationship.



                  To put it simply, two chords are chromatic mediants of each other if their roots are a third apart and they share one common tone. In the case of A minor and F minor, the common tone is C. Furthermore, note that the two remaining voices move by half step into the second chord: the A in A minor moves to A♭ in the F-minor chord, and the E of A minor moves to the F in the F-minor chord. The smooth voice leading is what helps to keep this progression together.



                  But note that F minor is not the only chord that fits this definition. There are three other chromatic mediants to this A-minor chord: C♯ minor, C minor, and F♯ minor.



                  As it turns out, chromatic mediants are the same quality as the original chord. So if you want to quickly find the four chromatic mediants of a harmony, find the roots located up and down a major and minor third from the root, and remember that those triads will be the same quality (major or minor) as the original chord.






                  share|improve this answer



























                    up vote
                    8
                    down vote













                    We call this a chromatic mediant relationship.



                    To put it simply, two chords are chromatic mediants of each other if their roots are a third apart and they share one common tone. In the case of A minor and F minor, the common tone is C. Furthermore, note that the two remaining voices move by half step into the second chord: the A in A minor moves to A♭ in the F-minor chord, and the E of A minor moves to the F in the F-minor chord. The smooth voice leading is what helps to keep this progression together.



                    But note that F minor is not the only chord that fits this definition. There are three other chromatic mediants to this A-minor chord: C♯ minor, C minor, and F♯ minor.



                    As it turns out, chromatic mediants are the same quality as the original chord. So if you want to quickly find the four chromatic mediants of a harmony, find the roots located up and down a major and minor third from the root, and remember that those triads will be the same quality (major or minor) as the original chord.






                    share|improve this answer

























                      up vote
                      8
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      8
                      down vote









                      We call this a chromatic mediant relationship.



                      To put it simply, two chords are chromatic mediants of each other if their roots are a third apart and they share one common tone. In the case of A minor and F minor, the common tone is C. Furthermore, note that the two remaining voices move by half step into the second chord: the A in A minor moves to A♭ in the F-minor chord, and the E of A minor moves to the F in the F-minor chord. The smooth voice leading is what helps to keep this progression together.



                      But note that F minor is not the only chord that fits this definition. There are three other chromatic mediants to this A-minor chord: C♯ minor, C minor, and F♯ minor.



                      As it turns out, chromatic mediants are the same quality as the original chord. So if you want to quickly find the four chromatic mediants of a harmony, find the roots located up and down a major and minor third from the root, and remember that those triads will be the same quality (major or minor) as the original chord.






                      share|improve this answer














                      We call this a chromatic mediant relationship.



                      To put it simply, two chords are chromatic mediants of each other if their roots are a third apart and they share one common tone. In the case of A minor and F minor, the common tone is C. Furthermore, note that the two remaining voices move by half step into the second chord: the A in A minor moves to A♭ in the F-minor chord, and the E of A minor moves to the F in the F-minor chord. The smooth voice leading is what helps to keep this progression together.



                      But note that F minor is not the only chord that fits this definition. There are three other chromatic mediants to this A-minor chord: C♯ minor, C minor, and F♯ minor.



                      As it turns out, chromatic mediants are the same quality as the original chord. So if you want to quickly find the four chromatic mediants of a harmony, find the roots located up and down a major and minor third from the root, and remember that those triads will be the same quality (major or minor) as the original chord.







                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited Nov 6 at 20:41

























                      answered Nov 6 at 20:19









                      Richard

                      34.9k677148




                      34.9k677148






















                          up vote
                          5
                          down vote













                          A different way of looking at what you did - and more importantly, where else you can go, is the fact that you've used two chords from parallel keys. C major and C minor. The Am is from C maj. and the Fm from Cm.



                          'Borrowing' chords in this way works well, and now gives you quite a few choices as to what else may suit your needs. Any of the 7 from C major, and any of the 7 from C minor!






                          share|improve this answer

























                            up vote
                            5
                            down vote













                            A different way of looking at what you did - and more importantly, where else you can go, is the fact that you've used two chords from parallel keys. C major and C minor. The Am is from C maj. and the Fm from Cm.



                            'Borrowing' chords in this way works well, and now gives you quite a few choices as to what else may suit your needs. Any of the 7 from C major, and any of the 7 from C minor!






                            share|improve this answer























                              up vote
                              5
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              5
                              down vote









                              A different way of looking at what you did - and more importantly, where else you can go, is the fact that you've used two chords from parallel keys. C major and C minor. The Am is from C maj. and the Fm from Cm.



                              'Borrowing' chords in this way works well, and now gives you quite a few choices as to what else may suit your needs. Any of the 7 from C major, and any of the 7 from C minor!






                              share|improve this answer












                              A different way of looking at what you did - and more importantly, where else you can go, is the fact that you've used two chords from parallel keys. C major and C minor. The Am is from C maj. and the Fm from Cm.



                              'Borrowing' chords in this way works well, and now gives you quite a few choices as to what else may suit your needs. Any of the 7 from C major, and any of the 7 from C minor!







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 2 days ago









                              Tim

                              92.8k1094236




                              92.8k1094236






















                                  up vote
                                  1
                                  down vote













                                  That could be called a chromatic mediant of A minor. Notice how the note C, the 3rd of A minor, is carried over to the F minor chord.






                                  share|improve this answer

























                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote













                                    That could be called a chromatic mediant of A minor. Notice how the note C, the 3rd of A minor, is carried over to the F minor chord.






                                    share|improve this answer























                                      up vote
                                      1
                                      down vote










                                      up vote
                                      1
                                      down vote









                                      That could be called a chromatic mediant of A minor. Notice how the note C, the 3rd of A minor, is carried over to the F minor chord.






                                      share|improve this answer












                                      That could be called a chromatic mediant of A minor. Notice how the note C, the 3rd of A minor, is carried over to the F minor chord.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered Nov 6 at 20:18









                                      user45266

                                      1,429323




                                      1,429323






























                                           

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